I have worked with lots of musicians, and inevitably there are misunderstandings artistically between us. What are your biggest pet peeves as musicians, and do you have any funny stories to share?
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Re: Musicians-what is your biggest pet peeve about dancers?
Tue, March 29, 2005 - 9:37 AMI don't work together with musician, but I know others who do and they really dislike the custom to share the tips. Because the musician often gets tipped also when the belly dance isn't there. -
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Re: Musicians-what is your biggest pet peeve about dancers?
Tue, March 29, 2005 - 10:37 AMAs a drummer and a dancer, when I dance I always give a portion of my tips to the muscians, and I do not expect them to gibe me any of their tips. I figure I can't dance without them, but they can play without me. It is my way of saying thank you for providing a musical component to my art.
As a drummer, the thing that peeves me off the most about dancers is when they don't dance to the music. Especially if they ask me beforehand to play this for x number of counts, and then switch to this etc, etc. So I am working hard to count things out and remember what they told me, and they aren't even paying attention.
Whew, feel better now. :) -
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Re: Musicians-what is your biggest pet peeve about dancers?
Tue, March 29, 2005 - 1:23 PMI agree about the counting thing.
One thing that I do know and it is starting to bug me more and more is that mostly the downbeat on the drum is suppose to match the step of a dancer and I try to use this to gage the speed that a dancer wants me to play or to find a rhythm that will match. If a dancer has no concept of the rhythm then it all goes to sh#t and I just end up playing whatever and it doesn't look as nice and coheasive. Also I am finding that when I watch a dancer I look at her feet first to see if it matches the rhythm and then at her hips and sholders to see if they match the accents.
The more I learn this might change.
~Donavon -
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Re: Musicians-what is your biggest pet peeve about dancers?
Tue, March 29, 2005 - 11:58 PMMy pet peve is when I am playing in a club/resturaunt setting and doing a drum solo the dancer is not paying attention to what I am doing so its hard to play with the dancer. I had a couple of situations where the dancer went to collect tips in the middle of a drum solo, I had a good laugh about it later :) -
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Re: Musicians-what is your biggest pet peeve about dancers?
Wed, March 30, 2005 - 6:08 AMHi guys; sorry I haven't responded sooner, awful migraine yesterday.
Ok, I've read your responses, and I see a pattern! Seems like most musicians get peeved when the dancer doesn't understand the rhythm and doesn't follow it, or worries more about money than dance. Hmmm....sounds familiar!
Why is it that a LOT of bellydancers don't know anything about real rhythm? How is it that they are even allowed on stage without understanding the music? It truly blows my mind. In Irish Step, Flamenco, Indian Katak, and of course, ballet, learning the music is a part of the dance. No one would EVER be allowed on stage in those traditions if they didn't have that training. Why is this allowable in Arabic dance?
I think it goes back to a lack of codification and no certification process. Before anybody says anything negative about the certification process theory, let me remind you of what it takes to become a ballet instructor. First, you'd better have started at the age of five, because the audition when you're 18 to get into a good ballet school is TOUGH. Then, if you're lucky enough to get in, it is four years of grueling work. Think of ballet boot camp. For four years. Then, not only are you studying dance, and everything related to it, choreography, music, etc., you are also doing regular academic work. My roommate as an undergrad at Butler was a dance major, and she almost quit several times. It's not easy. THEN, also if you're lucky, once you graduate you can dance in a real ballet company. Then you get to teach. Some people are so discouraged at this point that they quit, which is what my old roommate did, eventually. All that work, and I ended up the dance instructor, me who got her undergrad in International Studies.
I have had to work very hard to become a competent instructor. But I have had the priveledge of seeing how the real dance world operates, so I have had a model on which to base my teaching of bellydance. I also grew up playing music and singing, and my mother is a jazz singer, so she dragged me around as a child to all her gigs. Learning the music was second nature to me.
How can we change this? I don't want to sound like a self-righteous know-it-all, but don't you think that if we made some National certification process that includes everyone, Orientale, Folkloric, and ATS (amongst others...), then there would be no question as to a dancer's competence?
As far as the tips goes in your responses, just have good manners. Don't leave the musician to go get your tips when he is playing FOR YOU. Share them if you need to, and don't if you don't. But remember, that the musician is playing for you, and so at least try to talk to him/her before the show and plan what you are doing, so you don't look like a fool out there.
REMEMBER: The dancer is the unheard member of band. She/He makes the sound 3D.
Speak soon!
Katya xoxo
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Re: Musicians-what is your biggest pet peeve about dancers?
Sun, April 23, 2006 - 7:31 PMHey, D - it sounds as if you've taken from Souhail- is that right? :) -
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Re: Musicians-what is your biggest pet peeve about dancers?
Mon, April 24, 2006 - 11:54 AMYup..
Did you get this just from my writing? -
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Re: Musicians-what is your biggest pet peeve about dancers?
Tue, April 25, 2006 - 6:46 AMD,
Yep, I did! He has absolutely wonderful technique and is the sole teacher out there that I've encountered teaching the "down on the dooms" concept.
Watch Suheir Zaki, Fifi Abdo, Mona Said for yourself. It's always good to do your own research and these are classic dancers who are most widely available on video. If you watch them carefully, you'll see they use the "down and in" on the "doom" some of the time- but much less than 50% of the time. "Down and in on the dooms and up and out on the accents" is a WONDERFUL tool to use with unfamiliar music- but it is not a rule that a dancer HAS to use all the time, nor was it a method the classic dancers used all the time. Please don't take my word for it- really watch the videos.
Shoo-Shoo Amin, another WONDERFUL classic dancer - is not commercially available- but I have watched video of 3 full sets of hers- and again, no....it was not a rule, in fact she hardly did it at all.
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Re: Musicians-what is your biggest pet peeve about dancers?
Sun, March 12, 2006 - 4:47 PMI can relate to this posting!
-Eric -
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Re: Musicians-what is your biggest pet peeve about dancers?
Mon, March 13, 2006 - 1:39 AMAh, yes, we are from the George Abdo generation...:))) -
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Re: Musicians-what is your biggest pet peeve about dancers?
Mon, March 13, 2006 - 9:57 AMWho's George Abdo?
HeHeHeHeHe.... -
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Re: Musicians-what is your biggest pet peeve about dancers?
Tue, March 14, 2006 - 5:57 PMOMG, this thread is almost a year old!!
SCARY!!!!! -
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Re: Musicians-what is your biggest pet peeve about dancers?
Tue, March 14, 2006 - 6:35 PMThis kind of topic will always get people adding to it!
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Re: Musicians-what is your biggest pet peeve about dancers?
Tue, March 14, 2006 - 6:52 PMMy Biggest peeve, is a dancer not listening to the music, just lost in her own world.
Especially so, when the music will change from medium tempo to fast, and then she decides to go to the floor and do slowwwwwwww.... floor-work, and the band is still playing fast. This drives me insane!
Also, dancers that only want to dance slowly, swords, veil etc.. it's lovely, just not all of the time.
When I used to play in restaurants, Middle Eastern people would come up and whisper in my ear "why is this so slow?" I would shrug and reply "she isn't listening to anything else."
This kind of thing would be more embarrassing to me than a peeve.
Then there's the dancer who plays zils. Every musicians nightmare.
I only know of a small few who can play zils in time with the band.
When there's melody, it's a train-wreck when a dancer plays off time and loudly throughout an entire song.
The DIVA complex. Whew! How many dancers and musicians have had to put up with this?
I don't need to say any more here, you all know some divas in your community.
Finally, What I love about good dancers:
Musicians need them. They are our "visual interpretation of the music" (as Master Hossam says.)
They are just as important to any band as any musician, they are the front person, they carry the load of the performance.
Dancers are visual musicians.
-Eric
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Re: Musicians-what is your biggest pet peeve about dancers?
Tue, March 14, 2006 - 7:15 PMOK, I need some new musicians in my life!!! I am hoping that Indianapolis will uncover some gems in the middle eastern communities up there, it seems they are growing. We need some new blood around here!!!
I haven't danced with good live music in a long time....
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Unsu...
Re: Musicians-what is your biggest pet peeve about dancers?
Thu, May 4, 2006 - 11:41 AMAlso, dancers that only want to dance slowly, swords, veil etc.. it's lovely, just not all of the time.
When I used to play in restaurants, Middle Eastern people would come up and whisper in my ear "why is this so slow?" I would shrug and reply "she isn't listening to anything else."
LOL, how embarassing!
I am so glad I found this post and can read all of these do's and dont's. -
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Re: Musicians-what is your biggest pet peeve about dancers?
Mon, May 22, 2006 - 9:09 AMI think that the biggest problem that I've encountered is also that the dancers don't SEEM to listen to the music. I don't attribute this to arrogance or a "diva" mentality, but rather that they are so used to performing to "canned" music that they haven't had the experience of conversing with a live musician. They seem to anticipate that the music is "going here" because that's the way it goes in their favorite recording.
I think that this problem can go both ways. There are also musicians that have a rigid attitude about how a piece should be played and won't vary from it no matter what they see the dancer doing. As I tell all of my students, they are NOT playing FOR the dancers and the dancers are NOT dancing FOR them. It is an equal partnership, and the musicians and the dancers are conversing and communicating in a dialogue.
I think more time practicing this will result in a much more artful relationship. -
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Re: Musicians-what is your biggest pet peeve about dancers?
Mon, May 22, 2006 - 8:16 PM*happy sigh*
Yay Jeffrey!
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Re: Musicians-what is your biggest pet peeve about dancers?
Tue, May 23, 2006 - 3:27 PMThis is a good posting with a clear perception, thanks Jeffrey.
-Eric
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Re: Dancers nor listening to the music
Wed, June 7, 2006 - 3:39 AMHi,
I completely agree with you all, many dancers don't seem to listen to the music. The thing is that many of us dancers (including myself) haven't been taught to listen to it!!! It's taken me years to view BD as Master Ramzy and you think of it-- dancers are one more instrument, they are the three-dimensional instrument of the music. This perspective has widened by horizons and has helped me a lot to grow . -
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Re: Dancers nor listening to the music
Wed, June 7, 2006 - 8:50 AMYES!!! And knowing this is what makes us a real art. Not some strip tease. I could go on and on about that, but I just don't have the time.... -
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Re: Dancers nor listening to the music
Thu, June 8, 2006 - 6:27 AMI didn't know that H Ramzy says that dancers are an instrument.
I am in total agreement. I've been saying that since looooong before I started bdance- I used to do jazz, ballet, modern (plus)- so back since 1984/1985 I've been saying - a dancer is a musician, her body is her instrument. -
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Re: Dancers nor listening to the music
Thu, June 8, 2006 - 8:05 AMYeah, and when I got pregnant, I would tell people, "imagine if your violin got pregnant...it will never play the same!" Of course, my husband says it plays better :) Heheheee...
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